“Engineers are becoming sorcerers” | The future of software development with OpenAI's Sherwin Wu

章节 1：AI 编程新常态：95% 的普及率与代码审查

📝 本节摘要：

在本章中，OpenAI API 工程负责人 Sherwin Wu 分享了内部惊人的 AI 采用数据：95% 的工程师日常使用 Codex，且 100% 的代码合并请求（PR） 均经过 Codex 审查。数据显示，使用 AI 工具的工程师比不使用的工程师多提交了 70% 的代码合并请求，且这一差距正在扩大。Sherwin 强调，虽然工程师们仍在适应，但信任度与日俱增，正如 Kevin Weil 所言：“现在的模型是你将用到最差的版本”，暗示未来只会更强。

[原文] [Lenny]: sherwin thank you so much for being here and welcome to the podcast

[译文] [Lenny]: Sherwin，非常感谢你的到来，欢迎来到这个播客。

[原文] [Sherwin]: thank you thank you for having me

[译文] [Sherwin]: 谢谢，谢谢邀请我。

[原文] [Lenny]: i want to start with what's feeling like a barometer of progress in AI especially in engineering what percentage of your code if you even write code anymore and your team's code is written by AI at this point

[译文] [Lenny]: 我想先从一个能反映 AI 进展的晴雨表开始，特别是在工程领域。目前你（如果你还写代码的话）和你团队的代码中，有多少百分比是由 AI 编写的？

[原文] [Sherwin]: i do write code occasionally now still uh and I actually say for managers like myself it's way easier to use these AI tools uh than to manually code at this point and so I know for myself and some of the other emuring managers at OpenAI uh all of our code is written by by codeex uh at this point

[译文] [Sherwin]: 我现在偶尔还是会写代码，实际上我会说，对于像我这样的管理者而言，现阶段使用这些 AI 工具比手动写代码要容易得多。所以我知道对我自己以及 OpenAI 的其他一些工程经理来说，目前我们所有的代码都是由 Codex 编写的。

[原文] [Sherwin]: but more broadly there's just been this there's just so much energy there's like a tangible energy internally around just how far these tools have gotten how good Codeex as a tool has gotten for us and uh it's it's a little hard for us to exactly measure how much of the code is is written because the vast majority of it I'd say like close to 100% is is usually generated by AI first

[译文] [Sherwin]: 但从更广泛的角度来看，内部确实充满了一种切实的能量，大家都在感叹这些工具已经发展到了什么程度，Codex 作为一个工具对我们来说已经变得多么好用。而且，有点难确切衡量到底有多少代码是 AI 写的，因为绝大多数代码——我想说接近 100%——通常都是先由 AI 生成的。

[原文] [Sherwin]: what we do track though is is you know at this point the vast majority of engineers use codeex on a daily basis so 95% of engineers um use codeex um 100% of our PRs are reviewed by codeex daily as well so basically any code that goes into production that's merged in Kodas kind of has its eyes on and uh suggests improvements suggests changes uh uh in the PRs

[译文] [Sherwin]: 不过我们确实追踪了一些数据，目前绝大多数工程师每天都在使用 Codex。所以，95% 的工程师使用 Codex；同时，我们 100% 的 PR（代码合并请求）每天也都由 Codex 进行审查。所以基本上，任何进入生产环境、被合并的代码，Codex 都会“过目”，并在 PR 中提出改进建议或修改意见。

[原文] [Sherwin]: and so uh that's kind of what we're seeing internally but by and large the most exciting is just the energy that that there that there is

[译文] [Sherwin]: 这就是我们在内部看到的情况，但总的来说，最令人兴奋的还是那种氛围。

[原文] [Sherwin]: um another observation that we've had is uh engineers who tend to use codecs more uh open way more PRs so uh they're actually opening 70% more PRs uh and uh than than the engineers who aren't using codecs as much uh and the gap is widening

[译文] [Sherwin]: 我们观察到的另一个现象是，那些更倾向于使用 Codex 的工程师，开启的 PR 数量要多得多。实际上，他们开启的 PR 数量比那些不怎么使用 Codex 的工程师多出了 70%，而且这个差距正在扩大。

[原文] [Sherwin]: so I feel like you know the people who are opening more PRs um are starting to you know learn how to use the tool more and more get more efficient and that 70% gap keeps uh uh growing over time and so might have actually increased since I last looked at the at the number

[译文] [Sherwin]: 所以我觉得，那些开启更多 PR 的人正在开始——你知道的——越来越懂得如何使用这个工具，变得更高效，那个 70% 的差距随着时间的推移还在不断增长，实际上自上次我看这个数据以来，可能已经又增加了。

[原文] [Lenny]: okay so just to make sure we hear what you're saying you're saying all of the code of these 95% uh engineers at at OpenAI is written by AI it's written and then they review it yep yep

[译文] [Lenny]: 好的，为了确认我们没听错你的意思，你是说在 OpenAI，这 95% 的工程师的所有代码都是由 AI 写的？是 AI 写好，然后他们再进行审查？是的，是的。

[原文] [Lenny]: it's It's like crazy that that's almost like not crazy anymore that we're just like getting used to this

[译文] [Lenny]: 这太疯狂了，但好像又没那么疯狂了，好像我们已经开始习惯这种事了。

[原文] [Sherwin]: i think there's still some getting used to to be clear uh there's also I think some you know uh engineers who I think trust uh codeex a little bit less but um basically every day I talk to someone who who uh is blown away by something that I can do and and kind of like the their bar of of trust kind of uh or like how much they trust the model to do on its own goes up over and over uh over time

[译文] [Sherwin]: 我觉得大家还是在适应过程中，说实话。也确实有一些工程师对 Codex 的信任度稍低一些。但基本上每天我都会和某人交谈，他们都会被它能做的事情所震撼，而且他们信任的门槛——或者说他们信任模型能独立完成工作的程度——随着时间的推移在不断提高。

[原文] [Sherwin]: and there's a quote from Kevin Whale our our um VP of of science here and he likes saying this is the worst the models will ever be and so this is the worst that the models ever be for software engineering as well and so over time you just see people trusting it more and more and then we'll see the models get better and better as well

[译文] [Sherwin]: 我们负责科学的副总裁 Kevin Weil 有句名言，他喜欢说：“这是模型将会呈现的最差状态。”所以，这也是模型在软件工程方面将会呈现的最差状态。因此随着时间推移，你会看到人们越来越信任它，然后我们将看到模型也变得越来越好。

[原文] [Lenny]: yeah kevin Wheel former podcast guest uh he he said exactly that line on this podcast and a few times yeah

[译文] [Lenny]: 是的，Kevin Weil 也是这档播客的前嘉宾，他在节目里也确实说过这句名言，还不止一次。

[原文] [Lenny]: uh Peter the Claudebot/moldbotclaw is what it's called now uh developer uh recently shared that he uses codecs for his work and he feels like anytime it does things he just trusts that it has done the right job and he's just like almost certain he could just commit it to master and it'll be great

[译文] [Lenny]: 那个开发了 Claude bot（现在叫 moldbotclaw）的开发者 Peter 最近分享说，他在工作中使用 Codex，他感觉无论它做什么，他都相信它做的是对的，他几乎确定可以直接提交到主分支（Master），而且不会有问题。

[原文] [Sherwin]: yeah yeah he's a great um user of codeex i know he's in close touch with the team gives us great feedback um not surprised that he uses it i mean uh sorry it's called open claw open claw yeah open claw is a great is a great product and then I saw that this I mean this is very recent but this morning I think mold's book uh kind of like uh uh was shared as well and seeing all the uh AI agents talk to each other is pretty uh pretty surreal it's basically her is happening in real life is what I'm hearing

[译文] [Sherwin]: 是的，是的，他是 Codex 的一名优秀用户。我知道他和团队保持着密切联系，给了我们要非常棒的反馈。我不惊讶他在用它。我是说……抱歉，它叫 Open Claw。Open Claw 是个很棒的产品。而且我看到——这是最近的事，就在今天早上——我想 mold 的那本书（注：可能指相关项目文档或发布）也被分享出来了。看着所有的 AI 智能体（Agents）互相交谈真是太超现实了。我听到的感觉基本上就是电影《Her》在现实生活中上演了。