Dario & Daniela Amodei: The Rise of Superintelligent AI, the End of Human Control & Humanity's Fate

章节 1：人工智能的未来与人类命运

📝 本节摘要：

主持人沃尔特·艾萨克森介绍达里奥和丹妮拉·阿莫代伊，并提出人工智能安全与价值对齐的问题。达里奥回顾 GPT-2 带来的震撼，认为只要继续扩大规模，模型能力就可能超越人类；他也强调，科学与人文学科的结合是公司发展的重要基础。

[原文] [Dario Amodei]: I personally was super freaked out by it. I looked at it and I said, “My God, you just scale this thing up another factor of a million and it'll be better than humans at everything.” This is the defining, you know, economic and scientific moment of the modern age. We just don't know it yet. This is going to determine the fate of nations and economies and the future of humanity. Like, you know, you peer into the crystal ball, you see the whole future unfurled.

[译文] [Dario Amodei]: 我当时真的被吓坏了。我看着它，心想：“天哪，只要再把这东西的规模扩大一百万倍，它在所有方面都会比人类更强。”这是现代最具决定性的经济与科学时刻，只是我们还没有意识到。它将决定国家和经济的命运，也将决定人类的未来。你仿佛望进水晶球，看见整个未来徐徐展开。

[原文] [Walter Isaacson]: I'm Walter Isaacson. Welcome to The Builders, my new series of interviews featuring the most consequential minds shaping our future. Today I'm speaking with Dario and Daniela Amodei. I used to think that some of the concerns about AI were overblown. But then, when certain new models escaped the sandbox, I realized that the people building these systems have got to make sure that they remain safe and aligned with human values. What I want to know about Anthropic is: Are they sincere? And when they face competition, like when OpenAI says, “Well, Anthropic won't do that, but we will,” do they back down, or will they stand true to their principles? Hey, welcome to The Builders, you all.

[译文] [Walter Isaacson]: 我是沃尔特·艾萨克森。欢迎收看《建设者》，这是我的全新访谈系列，将对话塑造我们未来的重要思想者。今天我采访的是达里奥和丹妮拉·阿莫代伊。我曾觉得有些关于人工智能的担忧被夸大了。但后来，某些新模型突破了沙盒限制，我意识到，构建这些系统的人必须确保它们保持安全，并与人类价值观对齐。我想了解 Anthropic 是否真心坚持这些原则。当他们面对竞争时，比如 OpenAI 说“Anthropic 不会做，但我们会”，他们会退让，还是会坚守原则？欢迎来到《建设者》，二位。

[原文] [Daniela Amodei]: Thank you so much for having us.

[译文] [Daniela Amodei]: 非常感谢邀请我们。

[原文] [Walter Isaacson]: You know, Steve Jobs, whenever he launched a product, always had that street sign of the arts and the sciences, or, you know, the humanities and technology, standing at that intersection. And when you were growing up, Daniela, you were a flautist; you loved the arts. And Dario, you were always a scientist. Did that help you gel, and do you think that combination is important?

[译文] [Walter Isaacson]: 史蒂夫·乔布斯每次推出产品时，总会提到艺术与科学、人文与科技交汇的那条路。丹妮拉，你成长过程中是长笛演奏者，热爱艺术；达里奥，你则一直是个科学家。这种差异是否帮助你们形成默契？你们觉得这样的结合重要吗？

[原文] [Dario Amodei]: Yeah, I think that combination is a lot of what's behind the company, right? One theory I have is that running a company is too big a task for any one person. The range of skills that it involves is not possible for any single person to have. So you kind of have to assemble a full complement of skills across the top 10 or 15 people in the company or something like that. And every very successful company

[译文] [Dario Amodei]: 是的，我觉得这种结合正是公司背后的重要因素之一。我有个看法：经营一家公司，对任何一个人来说都是过于庞大的任务。所需技能范围之广，没有一个人能全部具备。因此，你得在公司最核心的十到十五个人当中，汇集一套完整的能力。每一家非常成功的公司……