How to Start a Cult | Lulu Cheng Meservey

章节 1：如何「创立邪教」：创始人必须成为那个领头人

📝 本节摘要：

主持人 Ti Morse 以「如何创立一个邪教」开场，探讨顶级创始人如何打造让人愿意相信的文化。Lulu Cheng Meservey 借「摧毁恐怖组织要斩首」和亚历山大大帝直取大流士的典故指出，创始人既是愿景的制定者，也是首当其冲的靶子。她认为最难的是招募最初几位成员：没有捷径，只能当面以近乎疯狂的笃定说服对方放弃安稳生活。人数足够后，组织会自我扩张。

[原文] [Ti Morse]: Today I have the pleasure of sitting down with Lulu Cheng Meservey, the founder of Rostra. She helps some of the best founders in the world basically tell their stories. I want to start this off with the idea of, like, how do you start a cult? 'Cause many of the best founders in the world are incredibly good at building, like, a culture that other people want to believe in. So, how do you start a cult?

[译文] [Ti Morse]: 今天很荣幸请到 Rostra 的创始人 Lulu Cheng Meservey。她的工作，基本上就是帮世界上一些最优秀的创始人讲好他们的故事。我想从这么一个问题开始：你要怎么创立一个「邪教」（cult）？因为世界上很多顶尖的创始人都特别擅长打造一种让别人愿意去相信的文化。所以，怎么创立一个邪教？

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: Every cult needs a cult leader.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 每个邪教都需要一个教主。

[原文] [Ti Morse]: Mhm.

[译文] [Ti Morse]: 嗯。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: You know how to destroy a terrorist group?

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 你知道怎么摧毁一个恐怖组织吗？

[原文] [Ti Morse]: Go on.

[译文] [Ti Morse]: 你说。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: You ever done one?

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 你摧毁过吗？

[原文] [Ti Morse]: I've never done that.

[译文] [Ti Morse]: 从来没有。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: The way to destroy a terrorist group is to make it acephalous. Acephalous — cephalus is this. Acephalous means you cut off the head. Without the head, the group has a very hard time to survive. That is why anytime you're going after one of these decentralized groups or movements, you just go straight for the head. When Alexander the Great was battling Darius, he ignored everybody and just went for Darius, right? And won the battle where he was outnumbered, they were losing. So, how does this translate to a founder starting a cult? Is you just signed up to be a cult leader. You didn't sign up to start a cult, you signed up to also run a cult and be the person that Alexander the Great is going to come charging for. You are the person that

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 摧毁恐怖组织的办法，就是让它「无首」（acephalous）。cephalus 指的就是这个（脑袋）。acephalous 的意思就是把头砍掉。没了头，这个组织就很难活下去。所以每当你要对付这类去中心化的组织或运动，就直接冲着头去。亚历山大大帝跟大流士交战时，对其他人一概不理，直奔大流士而去，对吧？结果在兵力不占优、眼看要输的情况下打赢了那一仗。那这放到创始人「创立邪教」上意味着什么？就是你报名当的是教主。你不只是报名创立一个邪教，你还报名要经营它，并且成为亚历山大大帝会冲过来要拿下的那个人。你就是那个

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: takes the slings and arrows. And so, what does that mean internally? Like, let's just unravel this whole chain of logic. What does that mean? You are the one that sets the vision. You are the one who has to recruit the first few members. Recruiting the first few members is the hardest thing you will ever do. Because you've got nothing and you'll look crazy. If you were going to do something normal, you wouldn't be starting a cult, you'd be getting a freaking job. If you're starting a cult, you're doing something that doesn't exist, and it doesn't exist for a lot of really good reasons, which is that nobody is unhinged enough to try that.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 要承受明枪暗箭的人。那么对内这意味着什么？我们把这整条逻辑链捋一遍。这意味着什么？你是设定愿景的那个人。你是必须招来最初那几个成员的人。招募最初那几个人，是你这辈子要做的最难的事。因为你一无所有，看起来还像个疯子。如果你打算做点正常的事，你就不会去创立什么邪教了，你会去找份该死的工作。既然要创立邪教，你做的就是一件还不存在的事，而它之所以不存在，是有很多充分理由的——那就是没人疯到敢去试。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: So, now you're going to try, and you're going to convince the first person that it's possible and that they should leave their comfortable and lucrative lifestyle to come be with you. Probably damage their friendships and family relationships for an indefinite amount of time. Sound worse than unemployed, probably not be able to get a date, with, like, meager chances of success, for equity that feels faker than an NFT. And you're going to convince them that you're going to do this, right? And then you have to do it a few more times. Now, if you do it enough, the cult recruits the cult. Today, Christians recruit Christians, right?

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 所以现在你要去试，你得说服第一个人，让他相信这事能成，而且他应该放弃舒适又优渥的生活来跟你干。很可能要在不知多长的时间里，损害他的友情和家庭关系。说出去比失业还难听，大概也约不到会了，成功的机会微乎其微，换来的股权感觉比 NFT 还虚。而你还要让他相信你一定能做成，对吧？然后你还得再这样来几次。等你做得够多了，邪教就会自己招募信徒。如今基督徒会去发展基督徒，对吧？

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: But imagine being the first.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 可你想想当第一个人是什么感觉。

[原文] [Ti Morse]: So, it's like kids. Like, you have enough kids, the kids look after the kids.

[译文] [Ti Morse]: 所以这就像养孩子。孩子生得够多，孩子们就会互相照顾。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: I've heard that after, like, five, they start to really scale. I think with a company, after 10 or so, the people recruit the people. But the first few, the only way to do this, and there's no shortcut, is to sit across from someone, be willing to sound like a madman, and to be so committed to the bit that you're going to look them in the eyes and you're going to essentially swear on your life that the thing you're telling them is possible, can be done, must be done, and will be done by you.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 我听说过了五个左右，就真正开始规模化了。我觉得公司大概过了十个人，就会人招人。但最初那几个，唯一的办法——而且没有捷径——就是坐到对方面前，甘愿听起来像个疯子，并且全身心投入这场戏，直视对方的眼睛，基本上以性命担保：你跟他说的这件事是可能的、做得成的、必须去做的，而且一定会由你做成。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: So, it's not a normal undertaking. It's very unnatural.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 所以，这不是一件寻常的事业。它非常反常。

[原文] [Ti Morse]: What makes a really good cult leader?

[译文] [Ti Morse]: 那怎样才算一个真正优秀的教主？

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: So, some people... I'll tell you what it's not.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 有些人……我先告诉你它不是什么。