Pieter Levels: Programming, Viral AI Startups, and Digital Nomad Life | Lex Fridman Podcast #440

章节 1：独立黑客的非典型哲学

📝 本节摘要：

在本章中，Pieter Levels 阐述了他作为“独立黑客”的核心理念：拒绝风险投资，坚持单兵作战，利用极简的技术栈快速验证创意。他通过对比个人开发者与大公司（如 Google）的效率差异，强调了“行动力”的重要性。此外，他分享了健身与体力劳动如何成为他对抗心理压力的良药，以及他为何宁愿做一个快乐的创造者，也不愿成为管理数百人的 CEO。

[原文] [Lex Fridman]: You've launched a lot of companies and built a lot of products. As you say, most failed, but some succeeded. What's your philosophy behind building the startups that you did?

[译文] [Lex Fridman]: 你发布了很多公司，打造了很多产品。正如你所说，大部分都失败了，但也有一些成功了。你创建这些初创公司背后的哲学是什么？

[原文] [Pieter Levels]: I think my philosophy is very different than most people in startups. 'Cause most people in startups, they build a company and they raise money, right? And they hire people, and then they build a product, and they find something that makes money. I don't really raise money. I don't use VC funding. I do everything myself. I'm a designer. I'm the developer. I make everything, I make the logo. So for me, I'm much more scrappy.

[译文] [Pieter Levels]: 我觉得我的哲学和大多数做初创公司的人非常不同。因为大多数人做初创公司，他们是建立公司，然后融资，对吧？然后他们雇人，打造产品，再寻找能赚钱的东西。我并不真的去融资。我不使用风险投资（VC）。我所有事情都自己做。我是设计师，我是开发者。我制作所有东西，连 Logo 都是我做的。所以对我来说，我更加“草根”（scrappy）。

[原文] [Pieter Levels]: And because I don't have funding, I need to go fast. I need to make things fast to see if an idea works, right? I have an idea in my mind and I build it, build like a micro, mini startup. And I launch it very quickly, like within two weeks or something of building it, and I check if there's demand. And if people actually sign up, and not just sign up, but if people actually pay money, right? They need to take out their credit cards, pay me money, and then I can see if the idea is validated.

[译文] [Pieter Levels]: 因为我没有资金，所以我必须快。我必须快速制造出东西来看看这个点子是否行得通，对吧？我脑子里有个想法，我就把它做出来，做一个微型的、迷你的初创项目。然后我非常快地发布它，比如在开发两周内发布，接着检查是否有需求。看人们是否真的注册，而且不仅仅是注册，还得看人们是否真的付钱，对吧？他们得掏出信用卡，付钱给我，然后我就能知道这个想法是否得到了验证。

[原文] [Lex Fridman]: So there's this rapid iterative phase where you just build a prototype that works, launch it. See if people like it, improving it really, really quickly to see if people like it a little bit more enough to pay, and all that. That whole rapid process is how you think of.

[译文] [Lex Fridman]: 所以这是一个快速迭代的阶段，你只是构建一个能用的原型，发布它。看人们是否喜欢，然后非常非常快地改进它，看看人们是否更喜欢它一点，以至于愿意付费等等。这整个快速的过程就是你的思维方式。

[原文] [Pieter Levels]: Yeah, I think it's very rapid, and it's like if I compare to, for example, Google, like big tech companies. Especially Google right now is kind of struggling. They made transformers. They invented all the AI stuff years ago, and they never really shipped. They could have shipped ChatGPT, for example, I think I heard in 2019, and they never shipped it because they were so stuck in bureaucracy.

[译文] [Pieter Levels]: 是的，我觉得这非常快，如果我和例如 Google 这样的大型科技公司相比的话。特别是 Google 现在有点挣扎。他们做出了 Transformer 模型。他们几年前就发明了所有这些 AI 技术，但他们从未真正发布过。他们本可以发布类似 ChatGPT 的产品，比如我听说是在 2019 年，但他们从未发布，因为他们深陷于官僚主义之中。

[原文] [Pieter Levels]: But they had everything, they had the data, they had the tech, they had the engineers, and they didn't do it. And it's because these big organizations, it can make you very slow. So being alone by myself on my laptop, in my underwear in a hotel room or something, I can ship very fast, and I don't need to ask legal for like, "Oh, can you vouch for this?" I can just go and ship.

[译文] [Pieter Levels]: 但他们拥有一切，他们有数据，有技术，有工程师，却没做成。这是因为这些大组织会让你变得非常慢。所以我独自一人，拿着笔记本电脑，穿着内裤在酒店房间或其他什么地方，我可以发布得非常快，我不需要去问法务部门，比如“噢，你能担保这个吗？”我直接发布就行了。

[原文] [Lex Fridman]: Do you always code in your underwear? Your profile picture, you're slouching on a couch in your underwear, chilling on a laptop.

[译文] [Lex Fridman]: 你总是穿着内裤写代码吗？你的头像照片里，你正穿着内裤瘫在沙发上，悠闲地玩着笔记本电脑。

[原文] [Pieter Levels]: No, but I do wear shorts a lot, and I usually just wear shorts and no T-shirt 'cause I'm always too hot. I'm always overheating.

[译文] [Pieter Levels]: 没有啦，但我确实经常穿短裤，而且我通常只穿短裤不穿 T 恤，因为我总是觉得太热了。我总是体温过高。

[原文] [Lex Fridman]: Since I go to the gym, I'm always too hot. What's your favorite exercise in the gym?

[译文] [Lex Fridman]: 因为我也去健身房，所以我也是总是觉得热。你在健身房最喜欢的动作是什么？

[原文] [Pieter Levels]: Man, overhead press.

[译文] [Pieter Levels]: 伙计，过头推举（Overhead press）。

[原文] [Lex Fridman]: Overhead press like shoulder press?

[译文] [Lex Fridman]: 过头推举，就像肩推那样？

[原文] [Pieter Levels]: Yeah. But it feels good 'cause you win, 'cause when you... I do 60 kilos. So it's like 120 pounds or something. It's my only thing I can do well in the gym. And you stand like this and you're like, "I did it," like a winner pose.

[译文] [Pieter Levels]: 对。但这感觉很棒，因为你赢了，因为当你……我做 60 公斤。大概是 120 磅左右。这是我在健身房唯一能做好的项目。而且你像这样站着，你会觉得“我做到了”，就像一个胜利者的姿势。

[原文] [Lex Fridman]: Hence the mug. Talking to my therapist. It's a deadlift.

[译文] [Lex Fridman]: 所以有了这个马克杯。上面写着“正在和我的心理治疗师聊天”。其实是在做硬拉（deadlift）。

[原文] [Pieter Levels]: Yeah. Because it acts like therapy for me. Which is controversial to say. If I say this on Twitter, people get angry,

[译文] [Pieter Levels]: 对。因为那对我来说就像治疗一样。这话虽然有争议。如果我在 Twitter 上这么说，人们会生气的。

[原文] [Lex Fridman]: Physical hardship is a kind of therapy.

[译文] [Lex Fridman]: 身体上的磨难确实是一种治疗。

[原文] [Pieter Levels]: Yeah, my dad taught me that. My dad always did construction in the house. He's always renovating the house. He breaks through one room and then he goes to the next room, and he is just going in a circle around the house for the last 40 years. So he is always doing construction in the house and it's his hobby.

[译文] [Pieter Levels]: 是的，这是我爸教我的。我爸总是在家里搞装修。他总是在翻新房子。他打通一个房间，然后去下一个房间，过去 40 年里他就在房子里转圈圈。所以他一直在家里搞装修，这是他的爱好。

[原文] [Pieter Levels]: He taught me, when I'm depressed or something, he says, "Get a big," what do you call it? Like a big mountain of sand or something from construction, and just get a shovel and bring it to the other side and just do physical labor, do hard work, and do something. Set a goal, do something. And I kind of did that with startups too.

[译文] [Pieter Levels]: 他教我，当我抑郁或者怎样的时候，他说，“找一大堆，”怎么说来着？就像装修弄出来的一大堆沙子之类的，拿把铲子把它铲到另一边去，就做这种体力活，做苦力，做点什么。定个目标，行动起来。我做初创公司某种程度上也是这种做法。

[原文] [Lex Fridman]: Yeah, construction is not about the destination, man. It's about the journey.

[译文] [Lex Fridman]: 是啊，装修并不在于终点，伙计。而在于过程。

[原文] [Pieter Levels]: No, no, its not. It's the journey. No, he doesn't care about the results. Well, he shows me, he's like, "It's amazing." I'm like, "Yeah, it's amazing." But then he wants to go to the next room. But I think it's very metaphorical for work, 'cause I also, I never stop work. I go to the next website, or I make a new one, right? or I make a new startup.

[译文] [Pieter Levels]: 不，不，这不（是为了结果）。这就是个过程。不，他不关心结果。虽然他会展示给我看，说“这太棒了”。我就说，“是啊，太棒了。”但他接着就想去搞下一个房间了。但我觉得这对工作来说是个很好的隐喻，因为我也是，我从不停止工作。我去搞下一个网站，或者做一个新的，对吧？或者我做一个新的初创项目。

[原文] [Pieter Levels]: So I'm always like... To give you something to wake up in the morning, and like, have coffee and then kiss your girlfriend, and then you have like a goal. Today I'm gonna fix this. Today I'm gonna fix this bug or something. I'm gonna do something. You have something to wake up to. And I think maybe especially as a man, also women, but you need a hard work. You need like an endeavor, I think.

[译文] [Pieter Levels]: 所以我总是……这给了你早晨醒来的理由，比如喝杯咖啡，亲吻你的女朋友，然后你有一个目标。今天我要修好这个。今天我要修好这个 Bug 之类的。我要做点什么。你有让你醒来的动力。我觉得特别是作为男人，当然女人也是，你需要艰苦的工作。我觉得你需要某种奋斗的事业。

[原文] [Lex Fridman]: How much of the building that you do is about money? How much is it about just a deep internal happiness?

[译文] [Lex Fridman]: 你所做的这些构建工作，有多少是为了钱？有多少纯粹是为了内心深处的快乐？

[原文] [Pieter Levels]: It's really about fun, 'cause I was doing it when I didn't make money, right? That's the point. So I was always coding, I was making music. I made electronic music, drum bass music 20 years ago, and I was always making stuff. So I think creative expression is like a meaningful work that's so important. It's so fun. It's so fun to have like a daily challenge where you try figure stuff out.

[译文] [Pieter Levels]: 真的主要是为了好玩，因为我在没赚到钱的时候就在做这些了，对吧？这才是重点。所以我以前一直在写代码，做音乐。20 年前我制作电子音乐，鼓打贝斯（Drum & Bass），我一直在创造东西。所以我认为创造性表达是一种非常有意义的工作，这很重要。这太有趣了。每天都有挑战，你去尝试解决问题，这太有趣了。

[原文] [Lex Fridman]: But the interesting thing is you built a lot of successful products and you never really wanted to take it to that level where you scale real big and sell it to a company or something like this.

[译文] [Lex Fridman]: 但有趣的是，你打造了很多成功的产品，但你从未真正想过把它们提升到大规模扩张的层级，然后卖给某家公司之类的。

[原文] [Pieter Levels]: I never raised funding for it. And I think, 'cause I don't like the stressful life that comes with it. I have a lot of founder friends and they tell me secretly. With hundreds of millions of dollars in funding and stuff, they tell me, "Next time, if I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it like you because it's more fun, it's more indie, it's more chill, it's more creative." They don't like to be manager, right? You become like a CEO, you become a manager.

[译文] [Pieter Levels]: 我从未为此融过资。我觉得是因为我不喜欢随之而来的那种高压生活。我有很多创始人朋友，他们私下告诉我。即使拿着数亿美元的融资之类的，他们告诉我，“下次如果我还做，我要像你这样做，因为那样更有趣，更独立，更轻松，更有创造力。”他们不喜欢当管理者，对吧？如果你成了 CEO，你就成了一个管理者。

[原文] [Pieter Levels]: But look at Elon. He's doing things million times bigger than me, and would I wanna do that? I don't know, you can't really choose these things, right? But I really respect that. I think Elon's very different from VC founders. VC, it's like software. There's a lot of bullshit in this world, I think. There's a lot of there's dodgy, finance stuff happening there, I think.

[译文] [Pieter Levels]: 但看看 Elon Musk。他做的事情比我大一百万倍，我会想做那个吗？我不知道，这事儿你没法真正选择，对吧？但我真的很尊敬他。我觉得 Elon 和那些 VC 支持的创始人非常不同。VC，就像软件行业一样。我觉得这个世界上有很多胡扯。我觉得那里发生着很多狡诈的、金融方面的勾当。

[原文] [Pieter Levels]: With Elon, that's not. He's just raising money from investors and he's actually building stuff. He needs the money to build stuff, hard hardware stuff, and that I really respect.

[译文] [Pieter Levels]: 对 Elon 来说不是那样。他只是从投资者那里筹集资金，然后他是真的在造东西。他需要钱来造东西，硬核的硬件产品，这点我非常尊敬。