Google DeepMind’s Demis Hassabis with Axios’ Mike Allen

章节 1：诺贝尔奖效应与将“科学方法”引入商业

📝 本节摘要：

访谈以 Mike Allen 的开场介绍开始，祝贺 Demis Hassabis 近期获得诺贝尔奖。Demis 分享了获奖后的生活变化，指出诺贝尔奖成为了与非AI领域人士（如政府官员）沟通的有效“通行证”。随后，他阐述了 DeepMind 的核心文化：将“科学方法”（观察、假设、实验、更新）不仅应用于研究，更作为一种管理哲学应用于商业决策和工程开发中，这被视为他们在激烈竞争中保持优势的关键。

[原文] [Mike Allen]: thank you very much big finish i'm Mike Allen co-founder of Axio on bealf of my co-founders Roy Schwarz Jim Vanhey thank you to all of you who for coming up nine years now have been fans of Axios and thank you for turning out here in San Francisco in this historic bank this very cool uh setting for this Axios AI plus SF summit uh welcome to all of you around the world for our big finish deis Hassabis PhD co-founder and CEO of Google Deep Mind he's a neuroscientist and entrepreneur and AI pioneer demis was a chess prodigy at five a Nobel laureate at 48 he's a Britishborn genius he's been kned deisabas welcome to Axios

[译文] [Mike Allen]: 非常感谢大家，我们将迎来压轴环节。我是 Axios 的联合创始人 Mike Allen，代表我的联合创始人 Roy Schwarz 和 Jim VandeHei，感谢大家九年来一直支持 Axios。感谢大家来到旧金山这座历史悠久的银行建筑，在这个非常酷的场地参加 Axios AI+ 旧金山峰会。欢迎世界各地的观众收看我们的压轴访谈。Demis Hassabis 博士是 Google DeepMind 的联合创始人兼 CEO，他是一位神经科学家、企业家和 AI 先驱。Demis 5岁时就是国际象棋神童，48岁成为诺贝尔奖得主，他是一位出生于英国的天才，并已被封为爵士。Demis Hassabis，欢迎来到 Axios。

[原文] [Demis Hassabis]: thank you so much thanks for having me we've been looking forward to this we appreciate to be here

[译文] [Demis Hassabis]: 非常感谢，谢谢邀请。我们一直很期待这次活动，很高兴能来到这里。

[原文] [Mike Allen]: it was just over 400 days ago that you found out you were a Nobel laureate and you said in that moment you said this is surreal this is the big one what has changed since then about your life and work what has it made possible um

[译文] [Mike Allen]: 就在400多天前（注：原文口误，应为近期），你得知自己成为了诺贝尔奖得主。你在那一刻说：“这太超现实了，这是那个最大的奖项。”从那以后，你的生活和工作发生了什么变化？它让什么成为了可能？

[原文] [Demis Hassabis]: well look it's still pretty surreal actually s till hasn't fully sunk in but uh it has made quite a big difference the the thing it makes a difference to is when you speak to people not in your field including you know big government people things like that who maybe don't know that much about AI if you you know you have the Nobel Prize it's a sort of shortcut to almost anyone to to know that you're you know you're expert in your field so it's it's going to be useful I think in the future

[译文] [Demis Hassabis]: 嗯，这仍然感觉很超现实，实际上我还没完全缓过神来。但这确实带来了很大的不同。最大的不同在于当你与非本领域的人交谈时——比如政府高层之类的人，他们可能对 AI 了解不多——如果你拥有诺贝尔奖，这就像是一种捷径，能让几乎任何人立刻知道你是该领域的专家。所以我认为这在未来会很有用。

[原文] [Mike Allen]: and and you had endless resources at your disposal are there new resources that you have or that you think you can tap now

[译文] [Mike Allen]: 你之前已经拥有了无尽的资源供你支配，现在是否有新的资源是你拥有或认为可以利用的？

[原文] [Demis Hassabis]: not really i mean you're right we we're lucky at at Google at Deep Mind we have we have a lot of resources they're not endless we always need more more compute uh no matter how much compute you have but um but we have you know a lot of great things which is why we're able to do such a broad portfolio of things but it's mostly again this uh this platform it gives you to basically speak out about things that you care about and I haven't done a lot of that yet but I think it will be important maybe we're going to talk about AI safety and other things i think uh the Nobel and the platform that gives you uh could be useful for that

[译文] [Demis Hassabis]: 其实并没有。你是对的，我们在 Google DeepMind 很幸运，拥有很多资源，虽然不是无尽的——无论你有多少算力，我们总是需要更多算力——但我们确实拥有很多很棒的条件，这就是为什么我们能开展如此广泛的项目组合。但这（诺贝尔奖）主要还是给了你一个平台，让你能为你关心的事情发声。我还没怎么这么做，但我认为这很重要。也许我们会讨论 AI 安全和其他议题，我认为诺贝尔奖及其赋予的平台对此会很有用。

[原文] [Mike Allen]: and what's on the short list of in addition to AI safety that you think you'll be talking more about using your platform

[译文] [Mike Allen]: 除了 AI 安全，还有哪些议题在你的清单上，你会利用这个平台更多地讨论？

[原文] [Demis Hassabis]: yeah well it's not just about uh safety in the long term agi safety obviously I think we think a lot about that but it's also about responsible use of AI today uh what are the kinds of things we should be using AI to to improve and to to power up and to accelerate and maybe you know what sorts of things we should be careful about um uh uh in the even in the near term so I think that's one thing I think also just getting society ready for what's to come you know AGI probably the most transformative moment in human history is on the horizon and um we need to get prepared as a society um and as a species and I think of course governments and other important people uh uh other important leaders are going to be critical in that and I think having having something like the Nobel platform opens pretty much any door

[译文] [Demis Hassabis]: 没错，这不仅仅关于长期的安全性——显然我们会深入思考通用人工智能（AGI）的安全性——但这同时也关于今天如何负责任地使用 AI。我们应该用 AI 来改善、赋能和加速哪些事物？又有哪些事物即便在短期内我们也应该保持谨慎？我认为这是一方面。另一方面是让社会为即将到来的事情做好准备。你知道，AGI 很可能是人类历史上最具变革性的时刻，它即将到来，我们需要作为一个社会、作为一个物种做好准备。我认为政府和其他重要人物、重要领导者在其中将起到关键作用，而拥有像诺贝尔奖这样的平台几乎可以敲开任何一扇门。

[原文] [Mike Allen]: one of the things that distinguishes you is you're deep in the science and yet you also are on the front line of this fight and this race among companies hyperscalers superpowers and you sort of in the mold of Steve Jobs you also have a product mind you want to create delightful things for people but you always say you're a scientist first

[译文] [Mike Allen]: 让你与众不同的一点是，你既深耕科学，又处于公司、超大规模云计算巨头（hyperscalers）和超级大国之间这场战斗和竞赛的最前线。而且你有点像史蒂夫·乔布斯，拥有产品思维，想要为人们创造令人愉悦的东西，但你总是说你首先是一名科学家。

[原文] [Demis Hassabis]: yeah science i'm a scientist first the reason I say that is that's the that's the sort of default approach I take to everything so um and what I mean by that is the scientific method really that way of thinking um I really love the I mean I think it's the most the scientific method is is the most important maybe idea humanity's ever had um you know created the enlightenment and then modern science so basically modern civilization depends on on on this on this idea of scientific method and experimentation and then updating your hypothesis and so on and I think it's an incredibly powerful method but I think it can be applied to more than just science i think it can be applied to everyday living and indeed business um and that's what I've tried to do is sort of take that uh uh to its limit and I think that's what gives us um you know advantage in some ways as a as a research organization as an engineering organization yes we're in the middle of this ferocious probably the most ferocious competitive battle maybe tech has ever seen um and uh but one of the things that I think gives us an edge is is the rigor and precision we bring to our work um because um we have a scientific method sort of at the heart of it and we blend world-class research with world-class engineering with world-class infrastructure and I think you need all three of those things to be at the frontier of something like AI and I think you know we we're we're sort of pretty unique in having uh worldclass capabilities in in all those areas um

[译文] [Demis Hassabis]: 是的，我首先是一名科学家。我之所以这么说，是因为那是我处理所有事情的默认方式。我指的是“科学方法”，那种思维方式。我真的热爱它，我认为科学方法可能是人类产生的最重要的思想。它创造了启蒙运动和现代科学，基本上现代文明都依赖于科学方法、实验、更新假设等这一整套理念。我认为这是一种极其强大的方法，但它不仅可以应用于科学，还可以应用于日常生活，甚至商业。这正是我试图做的——将其发挥到极致。我认为这在某种程度上赋予了我们作为研究机构和工程机构的优势。是的，我们正处于一场激烈的、可能是科技界有史以来最激烈的竞争战役中，但我认为让我们具备优势的一点是我们带入工作中的严谨性和精确性，因为我们的核心是科学方法。我们将世界级的研究、世界级的工程和世界级的基础设施融合在一起。我认为要在 AI 这样的前沿领域立足，这三者缺一不可。而在所有这些领域都拥有世界级能力方面，我们是相当独特的。